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WW： This is a reality we look at. The U.S. often gossips about everything in the world, but they cannot do everything, now.

王文：這就是我們看到的事實(shí)。美國對世界上的所有事指手畫腳，但現(xiàn)在還成不了什么氣候。

SS： So right now, when the U.S. Administration is saying "we're going to deny China access to its artificial islands that it's building" - you think it has no grounds for truth or action?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：所以，現(xiàn)在美國正在宣稱的“我們將要阻止中國進(jìn)入他們建造的人工島嶼”，您認(rèn)為完全沒有事實(shí)或行動基礎(chǔ)？

WW： We reject those gossips. We criticise those gossips. We ask the U.S. to keep the balance, keep silence about South China Sea.

王文：對美國那些閑言碎語我們是拒絕和批判的。我們希望美國能平衡各方關(guān)系，對南中國海問題保持沉默。

SS： What happens if the United States really tries to deny China access to the islands that it's building? How will China react?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：如果美國真正采取行動阻撓中國進(jìn)入自建島嶼，中國將如何應(yīng)對？

WW： I think we depend on U.S. real activity. We have enough solutions to react to the U.S. actions, so we just wait and see how will the U.S. act, yes.

王文：這取決于美國的具體行動。對美國可能的行動我們有充分的應(yīng)對措施，只需等待和觀察美國的行動。

SS： So, also, we're seeing a tendency right now:U.S. has long had its allies your regional - Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, but for instance, Philippines right now is turning to China, breaking its ties with America - even though you have a territorial dispute. What should China do woo the other nations around it? Do you think they're going to form an alliance around Beijing now?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我們現(xiàn)在看到這樣一個趨勢——一直以來美國拉攏中國周邊國家成為盟友，例如越南、韓國、日本等，但是菲律賓現(xiàn)在與美國的關(guān)系破裂，開始轉(zhuǎn)向中國，即使中菲存在領(lǐng)土爭端。中國應(yīng)該如何處理與周邊國家的關(guān)系？您認(rèn)為周邊國家會圍繞中國結(jié)成緊密的同盟嗎？

WW： I think that Phillippines' turn to China - it's a very clever and very right thing. Philippines woke up. In the past, the former President of Philippines trusted the U.S. too much and then the new President of Philippines suddenly woke up： the U.S. cannot give Phillippines anything, but China keeps sending regular support to Philippines. So, I think this is why Philippines... Filipino people are smart, they see which country treats them well, which country just cheats him. So I think, this is a very good example for the neighbour countries of China. I have enough confidence for Vietnam, for Malaysia, as well as the other countries, even South Korea or Japan.

王文：我認(rèn)為菲律賓轉(zhuǎn)向中國是非常明智的做法。菲律賓終于想明白了。過去，菲律賓前總統(tǒng)對美國過分信任，但新總統(tǒng)上臺后幡然醒悟——美國只能給菲律賓空頭支票而中國可以為菲律賓提供常規(guī)的支持。菲律賓人很聰明，他們明白誰是好人誰是騙子。所以我認(rèn)為，這給中國周邊國家樹立了一個良好的典范。我對越南、馬來西亞以及其他國家，甚至韓國、日本有充分的信心。

SS： Looking at things right now, do you think that the the system of US alliances in the region, with your neighbours, with the Pacific Rim, do you think it's falling apart, do you think that system is unraveling?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：觀察現(xiàn)在的形勢，您是否認(rèn)為美國與中國周邊國家以及環(huán)太平洋地區(qū)構(gòu)筑的聯(lián)盟正在分裂瓦解？

WW： I think for the new conditions of Asia-Pacific, the military alliance with the U.S. is useless, because it's new conditions, it's a new century. We, Asia-Pacific countries should develop sustainability, so I think - how do we develop sustainability? We don't need those military alliances, we need development, we need investment, we need construction of infrastructure, not those military allies. This is my answer.

王文：就當(dāng)前新形勢而言，美國在亞太地區(qū)的軍事同盟無法發(fā)揮作用。因?yàn)?，進(jìn)入新世紀(jì)、面臨新條件，我們亞太國家應(yīng)當(dāng)崇尚可持續(xù)發(fā)展，如何做到可持續(xù)發(fā)展？我們需要的不是軍事同盟，而是發(fā)展，是投資，是基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施建設(shè)。

SS： It's true that we've spoken so much about the U.S.-Chinese confrontation and you hear about it a lot - then I think about it, and I'm thinking, it's impossible for an average American to imagine his or her life without Chinese products. I mean, the two countries are so closely connected by trade and intertwined economically - how is it even possible to talk about confrontation when both sides have so much to lose in terms of money?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我們談了很多也聽了很多有關(guān)中美對抗的話題，但仔細(xì)一想，對一個普通美國人來說，沒有中國產(chǎn)品的生活是不可想象的。我的意思是，中美兩國經(jīng)貿(mào)關(guān)系聯(lián)系得如此緊密，經(jīng)濟(jì)上雙方都輸不起，這種背景下怎么可能談?wù)搶梗?

WW：I think that for the U.S.-China relationship, we cannot only focus on those confrontations. We shall look at the other face of the two great powers' relationship. Every year, there are over 6 million people exchanged between the two countries. There are nearly $600 billion dollars in trade. So, I think this is the other face - the U.S. and China now are in interdependent conditions, so I think confrontation is really a media definition, media idea. In the reality between the two countries we share, we enjoy peace, we enjoy interdependence, we enjoy the "win-win" games. This is my understanding. I travel to the U.S. many times, every year, and found that all those ordinary people in the U.S., all those ordinary people in China - you ask them, most of them will think that stability, peace, "win-win" is our common target.

王文：關(guān)于中美關(guān)系，我們不能只關(guān)注對抗，應(yīng)當(dāng)看到兩個大國之間關(guān)系的其他側(cè)面。每年有超過600萬人往來于兩國之間，兩國貿(mào)易額接近6000億美元，這就是另一個側(cè)面——現(xiàn)在中美兩國是互相依存的。我認(rèn)為對抗的說法其實(shí)是媒體的定義、媒體的觀點(diǎn)。現(xiàn)實(shí)中兩國推崇的是和平、互助、雙贏。我年年去美國，感覺美國普通民眾和中國普通民眾一樣，都認(rèn)為穩(wěn)定和平雙贏是兩國的共同目標(biāo)。

SS：I want to talk about the TPP agreement that President Trump has buried. President Obama wanted that deal very much and it would have excluded China. Your president right now is saying he will defend free trade, so is China actually ready to pick up on where the U.S. left off?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我想談一下特朗普總統(tǒng)退出TPP這件事，奧巴馬總統(tǒng)很熱衷TPP并且將中國排除在外，現(xiàn)在習(xí)近平主席聲稱將捍衛(wèi)自由貿(mào)易，這是否意味著中國將代替美國發(fā)揮作用？

WW： All the countries in the world should follow the WTO rules. We have the existing rules, why does the U.S. should establish the new rules? So I think that Trump did well. Most of Chinese, you know, support Trump.

王文：世界上所有加入WTO的經(jīng)濟(jì)體都應(yīng)該遵守WTO 的規(guī)則，我們有既定的規(guī)則，為什么美國還要建立新的規(guī)則呢？我認(rèn)為特朗普總統(tǒng)做得很對，大部分中國人都贊同特朗普的做法。